ESS Podcast

ESS Episode 1002 – The Berkeley Course Puzzle: Where Do You Start?

*upbeat music*

LAURA
If you’ve looked at your course requirements and thought, wait, where do I even start? You are not alone. Hello and welcome to The (not so) Secret Guide to being a Berkeley Engineer. I’m your host, Laura Vogt. And today we’re talking about prerequisites, course sequencing, and how to map out a plan that works for you with our awesome guest ESS adviser, Olivia Chan.

Hi, Olivia, welcome back to this year’s or welcome to this year’s podcast. It’s our 10th season.

OLIVIA
Wow!

LAURA
I know! And so, we’re going to explore a new topic. This is one that we haven’t actually covered in any of our seasons so far. And so, I’m excited to be able to do that with you. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself?

OLIVIA
Hi everyone. My name is Olivia Chan and I am one of the Engineering Student Services or ESS advisers. I’ve now been with ESS advising for about 14 years. Wow Laura, we’ve been here a long time.

LAURA
Well, like I’m saying, it’s the 10th season of the podcast. It’s kind of crazy.

OLIVIA
I remember when these first started. Well, I currently advise five majors, so a portion of electrical engineering and computer sciences, a portion of the new electrical and computer engineering major, and then all of environmental engineering science, engineering math and statistics and then energy engineering.

LAURA
Well, thank you again for being here today. I’m excited that we get to catch up and talk about this new… Well it’s not a new topic in the sense that it’s something that hasn’t been discussed before. It’s just a new topic that we haven’t really delved this deep into it about course sequencing. Let’s start kind of at the beginning of what exactly is course planning and why is it something that engineering students have to think about early.

OLIVIA
Course planning is figuring out your schedule ahead of time to make sure you are abiding by college policies, such as making sure you are in two letter graded technical courses towards your major, very important and 12 units each semester. This needs to happen every semester, two techs and 12 units. It also takes into account whether you are taking courses in order, taking your lower division requirements before upper division courses, and accounting for course sequencing and prerequisites.

LAURA
I think for some of the students coming in from high school, they might not understand how you could take a course, not necessarily for a letter grade or like it has to be a specific technical course. How do students know which courses are helping them fulfill that? And if you’re not taking it for a letter grade, what are you taking a course for?

OLIVIA
For interest, it also counts towards your 120 units needed to graduate.

LAURA
And so, you’re doing it as just a pass/no pass. It just doesn’t give you that letter.

OLIVIA
Correct. But there are some classes that fulfill major requirements that are only offered pass/no pass. For example, like for the electrical engineering computer science major, there is CS 195 which fulfills the ethics requirement.

LAURA
Oh, so that’s one where they’re like, you need this information when you don’t have to get an A in this information. But we need you to learn this.

OLIVIA
Right. And that’s what your ESS adviser is for.

LAURA
To help you understand what it’s all about.

OLIVIA
Correct. Yeah, If you’re uncertain, just ask us. That’s why we’re here.

LAURA
When a student looks at their major requirements for the first time, what is the best place to start?

OLIVIA
I always refer my students to the undergraduate guide to look at their degree requirements. You can get there by going to the Engineering Student Services website. Definitely, everyone should bookmark this. It’s engineering.berkeley.edu/students, with an s. And then you’ll scroll down until you see a gray box that says Undergraduate Guide. Click on that and then click on the degree requirements link. And then you’ll see a link that says your major program. And then you just go search for your major. Click on that and it’ll open up your major requirements. 

The other very helpful document students should refer to on the ESS website are under the Forms and Petition section at the bottom of the ESS website. So specifically, I’m talking about the degree worksheet for your major and also the fillable program plan sheet.

LAURA
And I’ll make sure I have links to those on our podcast page so folks can find them easily.

OLIVIA
Oh, perfect.

LAURA
What are some of the biggest misconceptions that students have about planning their courses?

OLIVIA
For incoming first-year students who are coming from block scheduling and a multitude of extracurriculars, or transfer students who are used to taking multiple courses, they believe the transition from either of these to UC Berkeley will be seamless.

The College of Engineering recommends 12 to 14 units for all new incoming students. So regardless, if you’re coming in as a new frosh or a new transfer for your first semester, so they can also factor in the nonacademic changes, such as making new friends, their new living situation adjustments, and also, more importantly, the pace of UC Berkeley courses compared to high school or community college.

LAURA
That’s a really big change that I don’t think people are going to realize that. It just seems like it moves a lot faster.

OLIVIA
Well, students are so used to okay, I’ve done a lot. So, you’re only telling me to take three courses. How is that? I can handle more than that. But you have to factor in like there’s, not only are these courses moving a lot faster than the courses that you’re used to taking, I don’t care if you have eight block schedule days and you had track in the morning and you had chess in the evening, you really need to factor in that you are moving to a more faster pace setting, and all of our current students will tell you that, they will attest to that.

And definitely like meeting other students, you will want to make sure you’re not overloading yourself. I mean, if you’re living in the dorms, everyone in your halls like, let’s go to dinner and you’re like, oh, I can’t, I need to do homework. They’re going to stop asking you. We don’t want students to also feel isolated. We want you to take that time to go meet other people, create that support system in your first semester, and then next semester if you want to take more.

You did well. You now understand better the pace of Berkeley. Then go ahead. But in your first semester, please try to stick to the 12 to 14 units and give yourself the opportunity to also get to know your environment.

LAURA
I think one of the things that some of the high school students might not understand is that some of the math courses, and I think maybe some of the chemistry courses, have a discussion section that goes along with.

It’s not just three one-hour sessions that you’re doing. You also have to factor in your discussion section. You have to factor in, you might need to go to office hours to talk to someone or get tutoring.

OLIVIA
Right. Absolutely. And there are also some classes that require you to have project partners. So, if you have a really busy schedule and your partner has a really busy schedule.

This is why sometimes you hear about people having to meet at 2am in the morning, because it’s the only time they could meet.

LAURA
I think that kind of builds into this idea that students need to be flexible. I always think of really flexible yoga poses or something.

OLIVIA
Yeah, students need to be flexible in planning their schedules.

In an ideal world, students would be able to craft the perfect schedule with later classes, breaks in between. But the reality is that your first-choice section may be everyone else’s first choice too. You want to make sure to have backups planned every semester in case you can’t get into your first choice or even your second choice.

LAURA
And then I think one of your other misconceptions that you were getting ready to talk about is the prerequisites.

OLIVIA
A huge misconception is that you can just bypass prerequisites. Oh, I heard my friend was able to take this class without it and just move to upper division coursework without them. So not only is bypassing lower division coursework for upper division coursework against College of Engineering policy, and there are repercussions of that, it sets the student up to have gaps that other students who took the prerequisites wouldn’t have.

So please keep in mind, there is a reason faculty set up the curriculum the way that they did, so please trust that they did this with your best interest in mind.

LAURA
And how far ahead should students be planning? One semester a year? All four years.

OLIVIA
For all majors, planning a semester ahead of time is ideal. But to realize that there are times when courses are offered or offered during a different semester than planned.

Again, students need to have flexibility. So it is very important and having backup plans again very important. For example, for my electrical engineering computer science majors, they have more flexibility in their programming. So planning is fairly easy. However, for my engineering science majors, most never follow a carefully constructed four-year plan because they have the ability to petition courses, if they are within the scope of the requirement.

A key takeaway is that you should check in with your ESS adviser about your program plan.

LAURA
And that’s just a matter of making an appointment with you. And you can actually sit down and look at what their plan is and, you know, and go over the course requirements.

OLIVIA
Absolutely. And again, students are really focused in the right now. You’ll hear me say this a lot. And right now, and the job of your ESS adviser is to look at the whole picture, because even though you’re just looking at it like, oh, well, I want to take this right now, I want to do this right now. Maybe, it’s not in your best interest to take a certain class at that moment.

So that’s why you want to run it by your ESS adviser. Someone who is a specialist in this field.

LAURA
In our last podcast, Megan, when she was introducing us to ESS advisers, had said that she really thinks her job is more about efficiency and making sure that students are efficient. So, I feel like what you’re trying to tell me right now is that these prerequisites are part of what’s making you efficient.

OLIVIA
Absolutely.

LAURA
Moving on to what the course sequencing means, which is part of what this prerequisite is. Can you tell me more about that course?

OLIVIA
Course sequencing means taking courses that are prerequisites of one another, such as Math 51, which is calculus before, Math 52, which is also calculus, or Physics 7A before physics 7B, so that you can progress within your major.

LAURA
And is it easy to tell when you’re looking at, do you just have to look at your course schedule or what the requirements are? It kind of gives you an idea of when to take what or like this when you definitely have to take before that one.

OLIVIA
Yes. And also, your ESS adviser, definitely, after you submit your first semester schedule through Golden Bear, advising will give you feedback.

LAURA
Okay, so are there any courses that are more important or stand out to you? More of things that students need to take. Make sure they take the courses in order and early.

OLIVIA
I want to take the time to really stress the importance of taking math and physics courses early. So, for students who need to take Math 51, for example, your technical course options will be limited since it’s a prerequisite to many other lower division technical courses.

You’ll want to meet with your ESS adviser to discuss your course plans, if you need to take pre-calculus or calculus, this doesn’t mean that you will be behind if you start off with either, but you must take a math course your first semester. If you still have math courses to take, or else you will run into scheduling issues in the future.

For more information on which math course is appropriate for you, please go back to Golden Bear Advising and go over that section again.

LAURA
And this is more for our first-year students, not the junior transfers.

OLIVIA
That’s correct. Junior transfers should have completed all of their math courses prior to entering UC Berkeley.

LAURA
But they still need to worry about sequencing of [courses] for later on, right?

OLIVIA
Correct. But for math.

LAURA
But for math, not math specifically now.

OLIVIA
Correct.

LAURA
What can happen if a student accidentally skips a prerequisite or they take the courses out of sequence?

OLIVIA
So a few things can happen if the course is impacted. Departments do have the ability to drop students from classes to make room for those who have completed prerequisites.

If a student is considering changing their major or declaring a double major, a simultaneous major or minor, this can be taken into consideration for whether their application will be approved. And just for clarification purposes, a double major means two majors within the College of Engineering, a simultaneous major means a major within the College of Engineering, and then a major in a different college on campus, and then a minor is a minor.

And then lastly, the unfortunate outcome. If a student accidentally skips or takes courses out of sequence, is that missing that gap of information from the prerequisite could cause a student to not do as well in the course as they had expected.

LAURA
And I was just thinking a lot of times those courses are part of your degree requirements. So, if you take it out of order, you’re still having to take it. You’re not getting to skip taking it.

OLIVIA
Right. That’s absolutely correct.

LAURA
And are there certain courses that tend to be bottlenecks or that students should pay particular attention to when they’re planning?

OLIVIA
As I mentioned earlier, if students need to take pre-calculus or calculus, they must take that in their first semester. Follow the degree requirements page on the undergraduate guide for the sample four-year plan for new frosh and the two-year plan for new transfers. These plans incorporate when courses are normally offered, whether during a fall or spring semester, so there are courses that are only offered in fall or only offered in spring. And those plans reflect that.

LAURA
And one of the things that I think is really awesome about Golden Bear Advising is, as you’re going through an answering questions about what you’ve taken and what test scores that you’ve received, then it automatically will give you an option of courses that you can take, in the sequences that you need to take in.

OLIVIA
Yeah, that is what’s awesome about Golden Bear Advising. Literally, you just put in your information and out pops your schedule, and as long as you follow what pops out, your ESS advisers feedback is probably great. You’re following what you need to be doing. Go ahead and enroll in classes when enrollment happens.

LAURA
Yeah, it gives you this list of courses. And then in July you have the other part of it where you actually register for the courses.

OLIVIA
Correct. And just as you mentioned, Laura, that will also take into account any of the prerequisites that you’ve already fulfilled. So just follow what pops out of your Golden Bear Advising.

LAURA
And we talked about flexibility earlier when it comes to course planning. But what is the flexibility when it comes to the degree plans?

OLIVIA
So certain majors have strict requirements that must be followed so there’s less room to petition for exceptions. Some majors have faculty advisers, and students should utilize them for planning, specifically, transfer students who will reach upper division courses faster than their four-year counterparts. That way, faculty, basically, they know the curriculum, and they also know the sequencing of upper division coursework. Versus for ESS advisers, we are tracking, like your whole degree to make sure that you are on track to complete it. But when it comes time to maybe the courses that you should take that are relevant for your major, faculty within your major would be the most helpful to outreach to.

LAURA
What are the tools and resources that are available to our Berkeley engineering students to provide that map to their coursework?

OLIVIA
As I mentioned before, we have the undergraduate guide that can be accessed from the ESS homepage. The sample program plans, the major degree worksheets, and the blank program plan sheets to help students plan ahead. We also have the undergraduate catalog located at catalog.berkeley.edu.

That gives a course description and course prerequisites. When you schedule courses, we recommend students use classes.berkeley.edu to see which courses are open, and it allows you to find specific requirements such as American cultures, reading and composition courses, and also humanities social science courses. 

Unofficially, students also have used Berkeley Time. This planning tool offers students the ability to plan their schedule with past data, but please keep in mind that this information should be taken with a grain of salt.

The same thing goes for if you plan to use Rate My Professor. In addition to your ESS adviser, the College of Engineering also has ESS Academic Peer Advisers. These are students in your major who are trained to help you with your planning and questions. Academic Peer Advisers are located in our ESS front office, which is located at 120 Grimes Engineering Center.

They are a wonderful resource to get a student’s point of view. And finally, there are also helpful honor society websites such as the EECS Honor Society HKN, which gives students a course map of prerequisites for specific tracks within their major. So, some majors do have honor societies that provide this information for them.

LAURA
Oh, that’s awesome. When helping the student create this plan, what factors do you consider besides simply meeting the requirements?

OLIVIA
Each student has a unique situation and goals so dependent on the conversation ESS advisers have with students, we will make suggestions that will still be in line with college policies.

LAURA
And then on top of all of this, trying to meet the requirements, we were talking about wanting the students to go outside of the classroom and meet people and do things. So how do things like internships or study abroad and research affect the course planning?

OLIVIA
The College of Engineering allows students who take a regular semester, and that’s defined as like a fall or spring semester, off for internships, study abroad or co-ops. So that semester that they take off does not count against their total number of semesters.

So, what I mean by that is any incoming frosh has eight semesters to complete their degree. Any incoming transfer student has five total semesters. So if they take a fall or spring semester off, we will give them back that semester. So, it’s not necessarily an additional semester. It’s a semester to make up for the semester that they’re gone.

So, this then allows the students to go ahead. They don’t have to take courses that go towards their major because they will gain that semester back.

LAURA
I am such a huge proponent of study abroad, so I’m excited to hear that you can study abroad and you’re not going to miss, like it’s not going to put you behind, it’s not going to hurt you when it comes to your engineering degree.

OLIVIA
Oh no. I definitely push my students to go study abroad if they have any intention to, because as my graduated students point out, you’re never going to have an opportunity like this again. Even if you go work for a company that sends you out literally, you will just go to the airport.

You’ll go to the hotel, you’ll go to the conference room, you’ll go to the hotel, and then you’re back at the airport. And that’s it. Versus when you’re studying abroad, you get to immerse yourself in another country. You get to travel with other people and meet other people from different places. And you’re just you just don’t get that.

LAURA
No, you really don’t. And one of our episodes this summer is about study abroad, where we talk to the folks in study abroad about what the application process is like and how to choose and all that kind of jazz.

OLIVIA
Oh, that’s going to be wonderful.

LAURA
And so, I feel like I already know the answer for this next question, but what advice do you have for students who discovered the behind in a sequence?

OLIVIA
Go talk to your ESS adviser to devise a plan of action to make sure you’re still on track to progress within your degree in a timely manner.

LAURA
What do students do if they can’t get into a class that they need?

OLIVIA
As I mentioned before, always have a backup plan. Backup plan please, backup plan. If the course is a prerequisite for course sequence, please meet with your ESS adviser to discuss your next steps. Also, rule of thumb always enroll at your assigned appointment date and time. Some classes may fill up quickly, so it’s always in a student’s best interest to enroll as early as possible.

LAURA
And where can they find their assigned appointment date and time?

OLIVIA
It is located on Cal Central. On your Cal Central account.

LAURA
On the main home page.

OLIVIA
Correct!

LAURA
If a student fails or they have to repeat a course, how is that going to affect the plan?

OLIVIA
Again, the student should talk to their ESS adviser to figure out what their next step should be. So, students are always focused on right now, as I’ve mentioned before, but ESS advisers are looking at the bigger picture to see how certain course planning may affect a student’s progress or competitiveness.

LAURA
Okay. And do our transfer students approach all of this differently? We talked about them a little bit.

OLIVIA
So first let’s start off with what they should be doing the same as incoming frosh.

And that again is planning on taking 12 to 14 units their first semester with two technical courses towards their major and making sure they’re taking lower division courses before attempting any upper division technical courses. How transfer students differ is that they are given four semesters to enroll, as a default. If they ask their ESS adviser for a fifth semester, we will change it in the system for them.

So, they just need to request it, and we’ll give it to them. Transfer students will be reaching upper division coursework more quickly, since most of their foundation courses were taken prior to entering UC Berkeley. So as a result, they will want to utilize faculty within their major for advice. Transfer students often worry that they have less time to make connections with faculty than their four-year counterparts.

So, I suggest to my students to do a Google search for three faculty in their area of interest. But searching with the term UC Berkeley faculty and then the area. So, for example, UC Berkeley machine learning, but even maybe more specific than that, like what area within machine learning. So, once they’ve found at least three professors, they should go ahead and cold email them with an introduction of who they are, their area of interest.

And if the professor can recommend three upper division courses that the professor believes are core classes for that student’s area of interest.

LAURA
What advice do you have for students who are considering changing majors or adding a minor?

OLIVIA
Go talk to your ESS adviser.

LAURA
This seems to be a theme.

OLIVIA
It is the theme. Go talk to your ESS adviser if you ever have questions.

If you’re not sure what’s going on. If you don’t even know who you’re supposed to be asking an academic question to go talk to your ESS adviser. So, the first question you’ll hear out of every ESS adviser’s mouth will be why? Why do you want to change your major or add a double major, simultaneous major, or minor? It’s important to connect with your ESS adviser early if you plan to make changes so they can guide you on the eligibility process and the feasibility of what you’re requesting.

As a reminder, there are no guarantees in being able to change your major if you do not meet the eligibility requirements. Beyond GPA eligibility requirements, please be aware that you must be in compliance with college policies, which include being enrolled in two courses toward your current major. Not being enrolled in two courses towards your current major makes you automatically ineligible to change majors.

This requirement is in place to make sure you are still progressing towards a major if you’re unable to change. For transfer students, it is not an option. To change majors, you must stay with the major you are accepted into. You may, however, add a simultaneous degree or a minor if it can fit into your plan. 

Transfer [students] should be aware that no additional time will be granted to complete a minor, so you’ll want to plan accordingly. That actually applies to frosh as well. Minors will not give you additional time.

LAURA
Oh okay, so you still have to finish within eight semesters or five semesters.

OLIVIA
That’s correct.

LAURA
What’s one thing that you wish every new Berkeley engineering student knew about course planning before they register?

OLIVIA
Hands down. Please, please, please, please listen to the schedule feedback that you receive from your ESS adviser.

There’s a reason why we recommend only 12 to 14 units your first semester. There’s also a reason why faculty want you to take lower division courses before upper division courses.

LAURA
You seem very passionate about this. Do you have one specific example of like when a student didn’t follow it and ended up causing a lot of problems?

OLIVIA
I have many examples, but I think…

LAURA
So, it has happened before.

OLIVIA
It definitely has happened before, and a lot of times students will come and tell us that they’re glad that we fought them. On taking less units, because they didn’t realize they didn’t take into account the transition that they would experience while they were here.

So, I mean, ESS advisers, we’ve been here for a while. We’ve seen what has happened with students. We also know that your first semester sets the tone for your time here at Berkeley. So, if you struggle your first semester, it has created some self-doubt in some students. Do I belong here? How did I get in? Why did you accept me?

So, we want to make sure that that first semester you have a really positive experience. And if we were wrong and you could have taken more units, well, then go ahead in your second semester. Go for it. But in your first semester, just get acclimated to the culture, the UC Berkeley engineering culture, and then you can take it from there.

LAURA
Let’s talk about the one takeaway, which again, I think we already know the answer. So, if they take one thing away from today’s conversation about these prerequisites and course planning, what do you want it to be?

OLIVIA
Always connect with your ESS adviser. If you have any questions about course planning, prerequisites, or any other academic questions or concerns, or again, you just don’t know who to ask a question to, just come and ask us.

If we don’t know the answer, we will let you know. We will be upfront with you and tell you we don’t know, but we will try to direct you to who we think would be the next office or person for you to talk to.

LAURA
Well, thank you so much for coming in today. I really like the theme of visiting your adviser.

OLIVIA
Thank you for having me, and I’m glad I got to reiterate. Go talk to your ESS adviser

LAURA
In case you I once again, if you didn’t think it was important, it’s really important and it’s you. A lot of folks you have the same adviser for the whole time that you’re here. So you can create that relationship with someone who isn’t just looking at a file for the first time when you walk in and somebody who actually knows you, who’s been there and has talked to you and helped you come up with like where you’re at right now

OLIVIA
And we want to chat with you, please come in. We have appointments, we have drop-in, we have email. There shouldn’t be a reason why you can’t reach us.

LAURA
And you have a lot of open hours. You’ve got drop-in hours. So, yeah, there’s definitely a way for you to be able to make the time and get that feedback that you need.

OLIVIA
Absolutely.

LAURA
Thanks for listening to The (not so) Secret Guide to being a Berkeley Engineer. Planning your courses might feel really complicated at first, but taking it one step at a time and asking for help when you need it, specifically your ESS adviser, it’s going to go a long way. 

Please take the time to explore the rest of the series for more tips to help you stay on track. And we look forward to welcoming you to the College of Engineering this fall.

 *upbeat music*